why do eastern redcedars have a bad rap?

[mboatman]

I recently found a private propery in which the owner and i go back many years so we are good friends. His property off to the right of his driveway is nothing but redcedars. The soil is clay and very nutrient deprieved. Cedars, yuccas, a very few ashes, and chestnut oaks are back there. The cedars are the majority by far. Many are dwarfed and stunted due to very poor growing conditions. The shapes are unbelievable and their protential is phenomenal in my book. There is one redcedar that has a pleasing triple trunk from a fat base almost at soil level.(My experience has shown me that those kinds of trunks are not too common around where i am) and another cedar whose trunk has ridiculous movement( in a good way).
MY QUESTION IS" WHY DO THEY RECEIVE SUCH A BAD REPUTATION AS BAD BONSAI MATERIAL? I HAVE HAD SOME(3 in particular) THAT HAS ADAPTED GREAT IN BONSAI CONTAINERS, BACKBUDDED SUFFICIENTLY ENOUGH, FILLED IN VERY WELL IN DECENT AMOUNT OF TIME, BEAUTIFUL RED BARK, AND SCALE LIKE MATURE FOILAGE. and yes the " particular" 3 that i mentioned have been collected by me and cultivated for no less that 4 years. They are quite vigorous.

[plantmanky]

[quote="mboatman"]MY QUESTION IS" WHY DO THEY RECEIVE SUCH A BAD REPUTATION AS BAD BONSAI MATERIAL?quote]

MItch,

I don't thnk it's all that bad anymore, at least not as bad as it once was. It seems to me the reluctance to use the material is from the difficulty in finding good material and then getting it out of the ground and keeping it alive. They are notorious for being difficult to get large caliper trees out of the ground alive because of their natural growth habit, roots in particular. Not to mention, that material for "informal upright " designs are rater far and few between as well. If you have a nice selection of material to collect from, you should definately go get it. One thing I've never understood is the use of the material in other design styles that is more ameniable to thinner or stright trunks like multi-tree forests or Bunjin (there are a couple of examples of bunjin in the ABS reference images that are very nice) and the like. Trees with trunks smaller than thumb size are rather easy to lift out of the ground and should be used more often since it's readily avaliable, at least in the Eastern Parts of the US. "Bad Rap", I' think it's more of a "misunderstanding of the material".

[lewisjk]

MOST eastern red cedars (Juniperus virginiana) grow with a thin, straight trunk. They are not suitable for anything but Christmas trees. And pencils.

It sounds, though, that you have found the treasure trove of potential red cedar bonsai. Have at it.

I do recommend that you not try to dig them all at once. Especially in what sounds like overall dry, poor habitat, you will find that large roots grow outward for long distances, and taproots delve deep into the ground. Trenching in the spring of one year and lifting the following spring may be your safest approach.

I have a couple of small shohin red cedar that I'm working on, but they're a long way from being ready. They grow around here with a very thin weepy (and prickly) juvenile foliage. and not too attractive mature foliage.

[mboatman]

I passed up using the polaris razor today to "drive hunt" trees. I went hunting on foot. I came across many great literati, informal uprights, and slantings. This area is absolutely a treasure trove! Miles of it too. I will never be done collecting. Most of these trees dont seem deep rooted according to my rocking the trunk tests. One is growing out of a sandstone boulder that is shattered horizonally all throughout the rock and i began to peel away at the rock and it exposed some great rootage. That wont be a hard extraction at all. The multi trunk i have my sights on is so nice! The three trunks have spaces between one another, not at all cramped up against one another like we all see often on the older trees.

Fellows, I cant help but wonder if i could collect one.....two....ok some of them? These things are natures masterpieces(granted nothing like the deadwood rocky mountain junipers out west) but extremly nice for what are typically seen in redcedars. The imagined jins are going to kill. I will wait for spring for sure but dang it, i am so tempted!! I will add pics of the day as soon as i get behind an actual computer. On here through my smartphone.

[lewisjk]

Please don't dig more than you can easily care for. Trees don't go anywhere, and if you or your friend have control of the property it's unlikely than any one else will dig them.

Newly dug trees need TLC and you cn't give that if you have too many of them.

[plantmanky]

Fellows, I cant help but wonder if i could collect one.....two....ok some of them? These things are natures masterpieces!..... will wait for spring for sure but dang it, i am so tempted!! I will add pics of the day as soon as i get behind an actual computer. On here through my smartphone.

MItch

Settle down boy!!!!, they will be there for you when the time is right. Jim is very right in voicing temperance on your enthusiasm to get a bagful of them. Bonsai, particularly when it comes to collecting, is a game of patients and deliberate action to ensure success. Success for both you and the tree!!!!!!! Sometimes it takes 2 or more years of working on a tree in the ground when you need to crop the roots back to encourage feeder roots closer to the trunk of the tree and often on only half of the tree at one time. Think not of having that group of new trees in your growing area right now, but rather that one special one that was taken with care and temperance to ensure its future life. So much for the philosophy of collecting!!! Your timing should be focused on the February-March timeframe. The trees will still be dormant but spring will be around the corner. I for one can't wait till you can get to a computer to put up some pictures!